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Building kick-ass internal education programs (for large and small budgets)

Building kick-ass internal education programs (for large and small budgets)

by Chuck Lauer Vose

In his talk at RailsConf 2014, Chuck Lauer Vose discusses effective strategies for building impactful internal education programs within organizations, regardless of budget size. He emphasizes that it is crucial for organizations to educate their developers, especially in a landscape with a shortage of senior programmers. Vose shares several key points to help facilitate internal education:

  • Beginning with Inspiration: Vose encourages educators to find passion in teaching, regardless of their prior knowledge. He shares how he was inspired by fellow tech educators and suggests creating an environment where learning can happen naturally.

  • Effective Strategies for Education: The speaker highlights that education doesn't have to be costly or overly complex. His experience ranges from grassroots initiatives like lunch discussions to structured programs. Key initiatives include:

    • Lightning Talks: Short, informal talks that encourage participation and discussion among peers.
    • Mob Refactors: A collaborative coding session where the team reviews and improves code together, fostering learning through discussion.
    • Pair Programming: Advocating for collaboration by establishing simple methods to encourage this practice, like setting up a visually inviting work environment to facilitate pairing.
    • Workshops and Themed Sessions: Organizing meetings focused on specific topics allows for in-depth discussions and hands-on practice.
  • Mentorship and Buddy Systems: New hires benefit significantly from having training partners to assist during their onboarding process, effectively halving the time it takes for them to become productive team members.

  • Creating a Culture of Learning: Vose underscores the importance of establishing an open and inviting atmosphere where knowledge sharing is encouraged. He notes that even small, informal gatherings can lead to substantial learning outcomes.

The ultimate message from Vose is straightforward: internal education can be accessible and doesn't have to be daunting. By facilitating inspiring environments and promoting collaborative learning opportunities, organizations can develop strong educational frameworks that help their teams thrive. He concludes with a rallying cry that internal education is easy and encourages participants to take immediate action in implementing these strategies within their own teams.

By Chuck Lauer Vose

There are not enough senior programmers in the world to satisfy the needs of our organizations; but educating your own developers is crazy expensive and hard, right?

It turns out there lots of effective, low-cost, low commitment ways to inject education into your organization, I'll show you some of the low commitment ways to engage your peers, how to evaluate your needs, how to measure your progress, and how to plan for future ed needs.

Chuck has been programming for the last 10 years, but recently switched full-time to a lifelong passion of teaching and education. Formerly he founded the Portland Code School, and now he's working with New Relic to build an incredible internal education program for incredible engineers.

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RailsConf 2014

00:00:17.000 uh so I want to welcome you to to my talk um it's yes you can you can raise
00:00:24.519 your hand now uh I gave him the job of raising his hand anytime I say so or um at the beginning at the S
00:00:33.160 so um we're going to talk about building kickass internal education programs uh
00:00:38.280 uh sometimes when you don't necessarily have a mandate from your boss uh or from
00:00:43.800 the organization but it's important right we need to be able to build these programs
00:00:50.160 and we need to be able to educate ourselves and so we sometimes have to just do
00:00:57.840 it I have one thing though before before we start uh I want you to know that if I raise my hand like this or if this
00:01:05.320 fellow down here raises his hand uh that's I want you to raise your hand as well so let's practice this really
00:01:12.560 quick yes very good okay good this is how I'm going to get your attention uh
00:01:17.640 usually it means uh it's time to shut up but not always uh but we're going to do some activities and I have to get your
00:01:25.920 attention somehow so that's effective for now I would would like you to we've been sitting all day right and
00:01:33.320 how can you keep your brain going if you're sitting so I want you to to stand up and take a three minute stretch break
00:01:39.119 if you're able to stand uh and introduce yourself to your neighbors so we have three minutes
00:02:01.600 ohow you guys are so good at that this is really great one of my favorite things about
00:02:07.880 that activity is that everyone every time I do something like that people
00:02:13.160 tell me nerds won't do activities they won't stand up they won't talk to each
00:02:18.280 other that's crazy H and every time it goes over Gang Busters in fact I think we gained 50 people just because we were
00:02:25.680 making tons of noise it's good we're going to talk about inspiration partly every every
00:02:33.319 rails comp I I go for the inspiration track they don't actually have that listed but there's always clearly those
00:02:38.480 talks I'm going to try and inspire you to take action on education at
00:02:46.560 home I have I have a one point takeaway because you've been like how much how
00:02:52.040 much knowledge can you really retain in a day of conferencing so I want you to remember one thing and and that's that
00:02:59.280 internal educ is easy I'm going to start it on Monday hopefully you'll be able to
00:03:04.440 say that by the end of The Talk The twoo takeaway because there's
00:03:10.080 slightly more content is that you don't need to know everything to teach and also that education isn't
00:03:17.680 particularly expensive or hard to do I make it look difficult because that's
00:03:24.440 how I get paid but you don't have to do it that way
00:03:30.920 so I had a number of I had a number of titles that uh my wife vetoed uh one of
00:03:37.760 them was covert education sneaking in education without them knowing um I also
00:03:43.959 had uh how to educate when you don't know what the hell you're doing which is very
00:03:50.360 true but like I said they got VTO so uh like like I said my name is Chuck Laos I
00:03:56.200 have bright hair you can find me around the conference if you have questions about education uh I like ferrets food
00:04:02.319 photography um I wish photography had an F cuz I'm kind of like that was the
00:04:07.840 founder of the Portland code school and I'm an education engineer at New
00:04:14.200 Relic uh also I like magnets and ponies and pets wearing
00:04:20.680 clothes and my co-workers are
00:04:27.520 jerks but I love them so uh first I want to start and talk about some inspiration
00:04:33.080 uh for myself Kira Mata who I don't know if he's in the in the room at the moment
00:04:38.800 but uh was just doing a talk over there two years ago I saw him at Rubi on ALS and the thing that was so cool was that
00:04:47.000 at the time this was uh I guess this 2012 he uh he didn't speak a lot of
00:04:52.680 English and he decided he wanted to talk through code because we all it was our
00:04:57.880 common language right and uh he was very nervous he was incredibly nervous but
00:05:05.039 the thing he did by accident was by very he very clearly demonstrated what he
00:05:10.520 expected of the audience what he said at the beginning was the beginning of his talk is said every time I pause I want
00:05:18.400 you to reassure me by clapping and so I want to ask you to do
00:05:24.639 the same thing this is my first talk and I'm I'm a little nervous I'll be honest so every time I have like a
00:05:30.520 you see like a big title slide or something or every time I I pause and and look nervous I want you to just like
00:05:37.360 applause the out of me that'll be really helpful for
00:05:49.160 me thank you so much that was so much better than I had
00:05:55.560 planned okay so I want to talk about how I got started in education and unfortunately it's an incredibly
00:06:01.479 embarrassing story for me how many of you know Eve online all right so you all know that
00:06:08.720 this is the like the nerdiest nerdiest MMO game uh commonly referred to as
00:06:14.960 spreadsheets in space so that's how I got started teaching and uh the reason is that you
00:06:23.400 know this is the sort of common learning curve thing Eve is Eve is the black line
00:06:28.720 with the the dead bodies everywhere and and it's so true in fact it's so
00:06:35.280 difficult to learn there's an entire Alliance of I think last count 2,000 people all educating each other because
00:06:42.360 it's just that damn hard well not satisfied to to just join euni or the
00:06:50.360 eve University I wanted to do my own thing they were doing they weren't doing what I wanted to do at the time so I
00:06:56.639 started my own Guild and we got 80 people people which I think was a huge success um we had weekly speaking events
00:07:03.960 by prominent PVP players but it was the first time I'd done public speaking ever
00:07:09.479 and I have to say that that was way more intense uh and way more addicting than
00:07:15.440 space piracy or PVP um just so so
00:07:21.960 scary uh after that I uh apparently added in a lot of
00:07:27.120 Animation slides um that bside digital was a 40 person company um this is
00:07:33.840 actually at work now um but education was not a thing it was something that I
00:07:39.520 had to sort of hack in around the edges um I still at this point didn't
00:07:44.879 realize I was educating but I was doing things like lightning talks and and little jasar Ralls um so I started small
00:07:52.440 and I I tried to share success with other people and it actually went really well by the end we had lightning talks
00:07:58.840 that the entire company came to and were wildly heralded and we started seeing
00:08:04.520 other things popping up like uh pair programming workshops and other cool things so it was really neat to to not
00:08:11.960 have any mandate to do this and still find ways to to take a little bit of
00:08:17.039 time each week um and as it was successful it grew and grew and we got more financing and and we were able to
00:08:24.080 buy lunch for everyone and it's just cool to demonstrate that success uh sort of still at that that
00:08:31.280 school or at at that company bside digital I started an intern program gone
00:08:36.320 terribly wrong um and I say it went terribly wrong because it was supposed to be
00:08:42.000 three people every three months and ended up being 17 people uh shortly
00:08:47.440 afterwards but I still didn't know how to teach I still had no idea in fact I I
00:08:52.480 think I had only barely accepted the fact that I might be educating at that point but I had a really smart guy
00:08:58.560 talked to me in the beginning and he said that an educator at least in the math and Technologies is not someone
00:09:05.079 who knows everything it's someone who creates a space where people can
00:09:10.320 learn I think that's such a crazy difference of thought to say to realize that they weren't
00:09:16.600 expecting me to know all the things just to set up a place where people could go
00:09:21.959 and read their book uh and and get it done right and I can definitely say that
00:09:27.680 PCS was the most INSP iring experience of my life definitely the most proud I
00:09:33.240 I'm still connected to all the students and it's still kind of uh I don't know if it's the highlight
00:09:39.800 of my life it kind of makes me sad to think that that might be in the past uh but I wonder what I go towards in the
00:09:46.519 next now now is different though I work for New Relic and New Relic really cares
00:09:52.240 about education and I didn't I didn't quite know how much they cared about it and
00:09:59.399 till month six but uh so I I work on building
00:10:05.320 internal education for engineers they're way smarter than me like terrifyingly
00:10:11.320 frighteningly smarter than me and I I can't teach them anything I I literally
00:10:16.959 don't know anything more than that um but I can create a space for Learning
00:10:22.320 and I I can I can help do some things that allow Engineers the the extra time
00:10:29.040 to get back to their day life like they can communicate to me and then I can build curriculum for them so I I can do
00:10:35.240 things there and I can help organize events too which is a huge time sync for most Engineers Believe It or Not
00:10:41.639 Engineers are not good at organizing events for the most part so that's something I can do um so this was this
00:10:49.639 was our mandate when I first talked to them at New Relic make the already awesome engineers at New Relic
00:10:56.440 awesomer like that's cool that's a cool holy I don't know how to do that like
00:11:03.560 I've been trying I've been applying here for 10 years I I can't like I want to come here so I can level up um wow
00:11:11.079 that's super
00:11:22.720 intense I totally have to recommend that that's like the best tactic ever okay so
00:11:27.800 you don't need to know everything that's the one thing I want you to take away from this well okay that's one of the
00:11:33.079 three I kind of lied um you don't have to know everything you need to be passionate and inspiring and you need to
00:11:40.200 give of yourself in this activity I still have no idea what I'm doing um I'm
00:11:45.639 learning it too and you can do it
00:11:59.399 okay activities so I want you to spend 30 seconds thinking about an Effective
00:12:05.000 Education experience from your past I want you to share this with your neighbor two minutes I'll raise my
00:12:23.399 hand wow that was like half the time you are continually impressive to
00:12:31.760 me
00:12:39.880 so okay so a good educator pushes people out of their comfort zone I know that
00:12:44.959 most everyone else I I haven't seen another presentation where people have forced you to talk to people and I think
00:12:53.040 it's important um so I really like I really like that quote and I like this
00:12:58.639 image in if we're growing we're always going to be out of our comfort zone so in some
00:13:04.240 ways you know we we talked about an educator is just someone who creates an
00:13:09.519 effective space for Learning and part of that is pushing people you saw me walking around and if anyone wasn't
00:13:15.839 talking I'd forced them to talk to me which is way scarier so I think that's a that's a
00:13:22.800 huge part who knows these guys yeah everyone this is uh Bill NY
00:13:31.199 and Neil degrass Tyson I didn't know Neil degrass Tyson when I was a kid but Bill Nye I sure as hell knew um and I
00:13:38.360 really love how much they they inspire people that seems to be their their main
00:13:44.079 thing now right I know that I know Neil degrass Tyson at least still has a classroom somewhere but I don't know
00:13:49.519 where it is his his primary thing for me is just the inspiration to continue to
00:13:55.639 continue learning he keeps exposing me to new new things about space that I never thought about before and for me
00:14:03.680 when I educate you I'm expose I'm going to expose you to the idea that you could
00:14:08.880 in fact do these things you could be the teacher and I hope that when you go home
00:14:15.160 and talk to people you'll Inspire them to learn the code that you're thinking
00:14:20.240 about the last thing I think a good educator does is gives of themselves out
00:14:25.720 of love I and I think this really applies to the open source Community as well and the open source
00:14:31.839 ethic and I this is is partly a preparation for you that
00:14:37.800 education may take some time outside of work sometimes but so does open source
00:14:43.600 and I can tell you that it's worth it so turn to your neighbor and give him
00:14:49.720 a high five
00:15:12.360 I don't I don't think this would work in many other communities in the Ruby community so I I actually thought about
00:15:19.440 making that activity uh applaud for the next thing only by using your neighbor's hand but de Sayed that'd be very
00:15:26.920 difficult so uh how many of you have seen this XKCD strip about nerd sniping
00:15:34.399 uh if you haven't so I I taught my wife this a little while ago that one of the
00:15:40.079 so nerd sniping is where you just sort of um talk you say one little thing that
00:15:45.680 forces someone to just spawn off like a number of different thought processes um
00:15:51.519 it's it's basically a mental Fork bomb if you know that term um and one of the
00:15:57.160 best ways and this is a very dangerous tool I'm giving you very powerful tools here one of the best ways to do this is
00:16:03.399 to say Hey Joe what's the most efficient way to do whatever doesn't even matter
00:16:10.120 what's the most efficient way to sweep the floor they're done um
00:16:15.440 so efficient is this funny word I'm talking about being an efficient
00:16:21.639 educator and uh so I apologize in advance because I I hope this destroys
00:16:28.120 you um mostly I'm going to talk about some one of the things you mentioned was how do
00:16:34.199 you create a space conducive to learning is it a physical space is it an actual thing like do you have to have a
00:16:40.519 classroom and the answer is no it is not generally a physical space however it
00:16:45.759 does tend to involve some real estate somewhere but it could be mixed use space it could be the couches whatever
00:16:52.920 so the first one my most favorite the place I started was lightning talks and
00:16:58.279 uh the thing I've seen work the most was 30 to 60 minutes before lunch on Friday
00:17:04.959 the reason I think that works is that uh as you as you finish the talks people
00:17:10.919 can continue their discussion through lunch very effective the other thing is that if it goes well you can move it
00:17:17.640 back by 30 minutes and get your company to buy lunch thus increasing your happiness and
00:17:23.240 your uh number of people coming which is great um lightning talks are super easy
00:17:28.439 to do uh you just need to find a couple people who can do 5 to 10 minute talks on
00:17:33.559 whatever I've seen effective lightning talks done with no technical content I would recommend some technical content
00:17:39.840 just you know for reasons but I've seen I've seen lightning talks that were very well received on home brewing um in fact
00:17:47.039 I've seen entire presentations on home brewing I've also seen really effective ones where you demo a product especially
00:17:53.720 if you have a big thing like New Relic it would be really useful to me if I could just see one person's take on one
00:18:00.400 feature every week I might actually make it through my product by the end of three years it's so big um but also
00:18:08.679 showing off a new gem or just generally inspiring the people around you this is education is so much about inspiring
00:18:14.919 people you can't force someone to learn right you can't well you can sit them down if you have the Mandate but they
00:18:20.880 don't have to learn unless they really want to so it's all about inspiration the last Pro tip I have for you about
00:18:26.480 lightning talks is that if you bring food they will come it's great so that's how
00:18:33.039 we ended up with a whole company Faithfully showing up every single Friday to an event that involved sitting
00:18:39.159 on the couches which I realized is probably not that hard of a proposition
00:18:44.360 but so the other the other one um some of my co-workers have been working on this recently mob refactors in fact uh
00:18:52.120 Ki was the person who introduced me to this idea that you get everyone in a room try pick some bit of C you really
00:18:59.200 want to hack on and everyone hacks on it together um it's important to review the
00:19:05.400 code not the author because that can be really offensive to the author especially if they're in the room and if
00:19:11.080 they're not in the room that could just be bad in general but uh you rewrite the code together and then and this this is
00:19:17.559 the part that kind of blows my mind you throw it out afterwards it's like mind Maps they're not really that helpful uh
00:19:24.960 after the fact and the code you write during a mob refactor is probably bad but the conversation you have during a
00:19:30.640 mob refactor is very good so this has been working really well for us and in
00:19:35.679 fact looking back on it I saw groups doing this but it wasn't called mob refactoring I didn't know what it was
00:19:41.120 called then I just saw them doing it and it being really effective par programming uh is
00:19:48.480 something that everyone knows they're supposed to be doing right but no none of us do because it's hard uh and and
00:19:56.400 the thing people don't talk about is that programming to me is a tradeoff of speed for
00:20:03.360 quality and and I think that's really important so if you find yourself or your product in a place where things are
00:20:10.480 not going as smoothly as you would like I don't know if anyone's had that problem um pairing may very well be one
00:20:17.440 of the the big power tools to look at so I have two two sneaky little methods to get pairing happening because I know a
00:20:24.320 lot of you have tried getting your company to pair you've tried like getting manager mandate and they can't
00:20:30.520 make it happen there's two methods that have worked well at New Relic so the first one is my method is called the
00:20:36.840 sneaky Monitor and what you do here is you set aside some time like you make an
00:20:42.200 appointment with your your teammate you literally bring your monitor to their desk and it's annoying because then
00:20:49.280 you're going to sweep like half of their off their desk um and then at the end you try and
00:20:54.720 be a nice citizen you help them like put all the things back in order and and you know maybe it's the first time their
00:21:00.080 desk has ever been dusted but that's cool it's nice uh and then the next week you come back again and you sweep all
00:21:07.080 the off their desk and put your monitor there and by the third week you know maybe they just haven't put their
00:21:12.840 desk back into shape and you just plop your monitor down and and by the fourth week you find a little monitor there
00:21:20.600 you're like oh that's nice thank you and then by the fifth week you've got an
00:21:25.840 actual monitor there and you thank the IT people and and then you go find someone else and
00:21:31.919 start it again and I've I've it sounds silly right like you can only touch one
00:21:37.960 person at a time but then then they start taking their monitor somewhere after they've seen the fun of it and and
00:21:44.840 then you've got two two people doing it and I've seen this happening at New Relic to to both great effect and great
00:21:51.520 detriment because we're totally out of space and now I see these monitor like pairing stations popping up everywhere
00:21:57.440 and the management is pissed at me cuz I've taught them pairing and so uh there
00:22:03.840 was another cool method that came up recently that I really like uh this is uh Emily's method um Emily Highland in
00:22:10.080 the insights team and what she recommended was uh sending out an open
00:22:15.159 invite to anyone who wants to try pairing to bring their monitor to the lunchroom and I'll I'll find you a buddy
00:22:22.840 to work on for that one hour or whatever we'll talk about some style some you can
00:22:28.640 practice and then go to town that's it it's a great way to get those who are
00:22:33.880 already interested in it going because they don't have friends who they can do it with on their team maybe so they
00:22:40.080 can't practice and there therefore they can't know well enough how to convert their teammate they just don't know
00:22:45.320 enough yet it's a great idea there's only a couple more uh so
00:22:51.000 workshops I mentioned these uh basically you pick a theme we did this uh maybe a week ago on refactoring and it was so
00:22:57.919 cool so we uh Katie Miller picked a topic uh some rails cast on re on the
00:23:05.240 service object pattern so we we all watched the rails cast she showed us
00:23:10.440 like 10 minutes of her code where she tried to apply that and we talked about it a little bit then for 40 minutes we
00:23:15.880 paired on trying to do that on a random snippet of code to various effect you
00:23:21.279 know sometimes it didn't work sometimes it did but it was really cool and then for the last 20 minutes we we came back
00:23:27.640 together and we all demo and it was so like I feel like I got two days of education out of that hour and a
00:23:34.520 half and it was shocking to me I mean Not only was I exhausted afterwards which maybe not super great but I really
00:23:42.880 felt like I learned a lot and it's it's an education experience I had never had before I had never tried this so it was
00:23:49.640 really cool
00:24:00.559 thank you I um I have to tell you like I've been rushing a little bit because I was
00:24:06.559 worried if I pause long enough that you you're G to clap at me again I feel like
00:24:13.080 this is actually ideal though like I would rather feel embarrassed by how often someone is clapping than the opposite so this is good
00:24:20.120 um so this one this one I've only seen a couple times at New Relic but it was
00:24:26.760 amazing this was literally one of the most amazing things I have ever seen or experienced uh and it was a
00:24:33.840 total accident they had no idea they were doing it um I only later found out it has a name later basically all of our
00:24:40.120 smartest Engineers got around the table like they usually do but this time there were too many of them to have the
00:24:45.440 discussion so they did it in our lunchroom and our lunchroom has two monitors that are paired together and
00:24:51.559 it's also open enough that anyone could hear so they were sitting around the little table talking and what I noticed
00:24:58.039 is that there was a growing crowd of about 40 people listening and looking at the second monitor the paired Monitor
00:25:05.000 and they were discussing amongst themselves they were clarifying the concepts because the super nerds um were
00:25:11.159 over here talking about this really hard concept and we were just trying to understand what the hell they were talking about but it was really cool to
00:25:18.399 hear our elders speaking like what what do they worry about during the day I don't know um
00:25:25.640 and and and also these these are normally like closed door uh you don't
00:25:32.039 normally have any impact in this and so being able to like sort of listen in was
00:25:38.840 definitely like one of the most enlightening and eye-opening things I think I have seen in a long time so I
00:25:45.000 would highly recommend something like this I think this works for anything I think this works at the director level
00:25:50.360 like as long as you're not talking about employees I would love to hear what your
00:25:55.919 VPS or your executives are talking about super
00:26:01.159 cool um and then I think this is second to last one but the last real one um so
00:26:09.200 the last one I had never heard of this concept but now that I see it in effect I love it basically when you get a new
00:26:16.120 hire assign someone to them for a day it's nothing big um maybe if maybe if
00:26:24.640 you have have the resources you can assign someone half time for two weeks
00:26:30.320 or maybe even four weeks and what I can tell you is that if you do that uh so
00:26:38.080 new when New Relic onboards we think it takes about six months for someone to truly get up to speed and I actually
00:26:43.679 agree with this um what we've found is that if you have an onboarding buddy helping you through that first month it
00:26:50.240 drops to about three months which is crazy you get one one engineer's half
00:26:56.799 time for one month that's three months of extra productivity that is money that
00:27:02.480 is a lot of money huge huge difference for us so we now do this 100% of people come into New
00:27:10.240 Relic and they have a person guaranteed for four weeks if not two people dedicated to them in addition to their
00:27:16.399 team and one of them is usually me so very
00:27:21.600 cool um the last one dedicated trainers I wouldn't recommend it I mean
00:27:28.399 unless you have a lot of people or the quality of trainings is like absolutely critical or um but it's just the
00:27:36.679 dedicated trainers have to be crazy efficient and so if you're at the size where you have two three 400 people yeah
00:27:43.480 all right dedicated trainer time but most of us aren't there most of us are 40 person companies right
00:28:01.799 all right uh yeah I'm just reading the side sorry I forgot what these are yeah turn to your neighbor talk very very briefly
00:28:08.080 not three minutes about what these have tried or which of these you've tried and which you think would work in your
00:28:15.080 or and I'll tell you the
00:28:22.600 secrets I'm sorry we had to cut that one short I'm running out of time it's all the clapping
00:28:30.720 okay my my plan for your organization if you do this you will have education and I will be happy and and pleased with
00:28:38.919 you as if you need to work for my pleasure uh so I want you to to next
00:28:44.720 week next Friday at 11:30 I want you to do lightning talks it's the easiest
00:28:50.679 thing you can do it's super easy to find three people who want to talk they need to make three slides how hard is that
00:28:59.519 also I want you to ask your team to review your code at some point if you're willing bring some snacks and they will
00:29:05.279 like it a lot better uh third one set aside some time for pairing bring your monitor you know
00:29:11.080 the sneaky monitor trick now and also I think the next time you have a new hire try it I think you'll find that it's an
00:29:17.799 immensely pleasurable and pride-filled
00:29:23.320 Endeavor uh for this activity I would like you to say these things on the screen
00:29:29.720 so yes so uh I'm going to count to three yes thank you I'm going to count to
00:29:35.039 three and then we're all going to say this thing all right one two three internal education is easy I'm going to
00:29:42.320 start on Monday yeah excellent I am fulfilled you know the two-point
00:29:49.000 takeaway you don't need to know everything you can teach right now education isn't expensive or hard to
00:29:55.799 implement Chuck just makes it look that way yeah